A call to boycott Nvidia games for ATI/AMD owners

[badb0y]

This thread is completely baseless and offensive, us GPU enthusiasts need both AMD and nVidia to succeed and compete that's the only way we will see progress.

 

[notty22]

Nvidia has put up substantial monies to help develop Crysis 2 as well and its being advertised.
http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&boardid=1&threadid=118052

Are you asking your fellow gamers to boycott Crysis 2 ?

 

[Skurge]

What a nonsense thread.

Boycotting games, hah! Im not getting HAWX2 or LP2 just cause the 1st hawx game was rubbish and I hate Ubisoft (Who the hell adds DRM to a benchmark) and LP1 was also rubbish.

In respect to CIV5, it is the 1st and only game to support multi-threading in DX11. Both AMD and nvidia didnt have multi-threaded drivers. Maybe nVidia was 1st with their drivers. Also, CIV5 is just a horrible game for benching the results are all over the place on any site.

Happy, you should quit with the driver nonsense. My friend Got CIV5 on launch and he had 2x GTX295, he had to wait 2-3months before SLI was working. Do you know how slow a DX10 275 is in CIV5? It was borderline unplayable. AMD had crossfire in that game the day it launched.

Because AMD roll out hotfixes so often the fix issues much quicker. Also they already have crossfire profiles for Fable3 (that game is still one month away from release) and SHIFT2 (coming march 22nd), so you have nothing to complain about AMDs hotfixes. If you have such a problem with their drivers get an nVdia card and stop complaining and enjoy having issues unfixed for months.

PS: I don't have a problem with nvidia's drivers, they worked fine for my friends and I. Only issue I have is the bloody DRM and the fact that you have to restart after installing new drivers. Other than that they are fine.

 

[Mistwalker]

This thread is for the ATI/AMD owners not a mud contest. If some software developers don't like our hardware then we don't like their software, period.

Who's "we"? You're making a fantastic number of assumptions, right from your OP where poor benchmark showings for ATI = artificial performance crippling.

Then you have the audacity to ask no less than a half dozen times for other posters to prove you wrong despite having no solid presentable evidence at all.

You created the topic, made your assertions, and you are calling for a software boycott.

The burden of proof is on you. You need to understand this.

And while at it, what is the criteria for selecting the games tested in the video card reviews? The most played ones? I don't think so. Also what video card was used in the CPU benches for the games listed in there?

Question: have you emailed Ryan, or any staff here, with these questions? Ryan even responded to this thread and reiterated his email is always open. Have you made any attempt to collect any information about one single thing you're vaguely accusing people of here?

Nvidia has done some shady things in the name of competition, but AMD isn't a saint in that department either. Any possible valid points you have buried under the vitriol are completely ruined by the monumentally poor presentation of your arguments. Substantiate your many, many claims or you are simply a zealot making accusations.

I'm an ATI owner, and I think this thread is a travesty.

 

[Castiel]

Mosox is my idol

 

[SirPauly]

Wow, a lot of disenginuity in here. It's like some were born yesterday. Never heard if Ubisoft disabling the DX10.1 support in Assassins Creed. Never heard of disabling the AA on Batman when a non-nVidia card was detected. Those things never happened.

It was Ubisoft that offered one of world's first DirectX 10.1 titles -- HawX. The Developers offered their reasoning for taking 10.1 out of Assassins Creed but you choose not to believe it at all and invent things out of thin air.

What about fighting the good ol' fight against the software Physx in order to promote their proprietary hardware Physx? Disabling the multi-core support?
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/...tm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss

CPU support is important to Physics, and why CPU PhysX is used in many titles -- but needs time to evolve. Your views are so one-sided -- try investigating PhysX 3.0 SDK and a complete rewrite and automatic threading.

The recent over-use of the tessellation that adds what? to the visual quality but seriously cripples the cards from the competition? The recent games and benchmarks that smell like rotten eggs in which Nvidia budget cards trash AMD high end products? As opposed to the non-TWIMTBP games in which the results are completely different? I mean you can't have an application in which an Athlon II is faster than an i7 2600K, can you? If you have, you must have done something fishy in there. You can't blame it all on the drivers, will HAWX II run much better on AMD with some other drivers? No, the game is designed to hit exactly the competition's "weak" point. It hurts the Nvidia owners too just like the hardware Physx but who cares about them?

Crippling? The game runs faster with tessellation enabled than the older HawX did with not when that game was helping head line AMD's 10.1 campaign.

Adobe (yet another Nvidia buddy) not offering support for the AMD cards and also for the cheaper Nvidia ones? It's not like they can't do it very easily, they don't want to:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/adobe-cs5-cuda-64-bit,2770-3.html
This doesn't hurt the consumers?

Ask AMD to do more -- invest more -- spend more resources -- ask them to be more pro-active.

 

[Idontcare]

Go ahead, answer it. I made my account in here only because I heard that this site/forum is Intel/Nvidia biased and from viewing their reviews/benches. And it is.

Do be aware of the AnandTech Forum Guidelines, specifically Rule #1 which states:

1) No trolling, flaming or personally attacking members. Deftly attacking ideas and backing up arguments with facts is acceptable and encouraged. Attacking other members personally and purposefully causing trouble with no motive other than to upset the crowd is not allowed.

Your post above is essentially an admission that your objective in becoming a member here is to press an anti-Intel and anti-Nvidia agenda with the no other motive than to upset the crowd because the crowd in your mind is pro-Intel and pro-Nvidia.

You are welcome to engage our community through our forums, but if you are here just to stir the pot and piss off as many people as you can then you are going to find yourself in the express lane to being banned.

Moderator Idontcare

 

[Idontcare]

Whole thread is one giant troll.

Should just leave this one alone.

Everyone in the community has the right to form an opinion on the thread and its topic as well as the ability to leave it alone and refrain from thread-crapping or making personal insults in it.

If someone cannot handle themselves with decorum and civility in this thread then my advice for them is to refrain from reading it and posting in it.

This thread may well be inflammatory, it may well be flame-bait, but that is no excuse for the thread-crapping and personal attacks that are being slung around in this thread...no one forces members of the community to read the thread, no one forces members of the community to post in it.

If someone truly believes this to be a troll thread then they have two choices:

(1) Avoid the thread, don't read it and don't post in it, and thus avoid making a spectacle of yourself as you take bait and proceed to violate posting guidelines with your posts.

(2) Compose yourself, maintain some personal discipline, and post compelling and productive rebuttal's to the OP's assertions in a manner that befits a technical forum.

For a couple of excellent examples of the latter I refer the community to the following posts:
http://socialtechwork.com/showpost.php?p=31175382&postcount=146

http://socialtechwork.com/showpost.php?p=31175804&postcount=154

Two wrongs don't make a right, if someone thinks this thread is a troll thread that does not give them the right to thread crap in it or make personal attacks in it.

Moderator Idontcare

 

[Idontcare]

Why is this thread even allowed to stay open?

The OP has the right to have an opinion regarding the current state of affairs on the GPU marketspace and they have the right to share that viewpoint with the community.

This thread is allowed to stay open because thus far it has been a productive and fruitful conversation for the portion of community that has elected to engage the thread.

This assessment may change in time if the decorum of the conversation degrades or goes off-topic.

Moderator Idontcare

 

[Skurge]

Snip

Im with you on the part where the OP is clearly presenting one sided arguments.

And Impressed with how physx 3.0 works. But you are starting to sound a bit one sided too with only listing nVidia "triumphs" making AMD look like they do nothing.

You would be surprised how much AMD helps developers with games. They just choose to spend their money on things other than putting up gaming evolved banners all of the game.

Also another thing, even when you turn off tessellation in HAWX2 nV cards are still much faster than AMD cards, so its something other than just tessellation as you don't see that in any other game, even in 3Dmark11 or Unigene that use heavy amounts of it. With tessellation off, AMD cards are still lumped together from the much slower 5850 with 1 tessellator engine to the 6970 has a tessellator up to 3x more powerful.

It mostly just poor coding on ubi's part. I don't think nV could get a game crippled for AMD even if they tried, seeing how close market share is to 50/50.

 

[tincart]

I'm presently using an nV card and I won't buy games such as HAWX2 and LP2. I don't trust a game company that could bungle how the game performs on one vendor that much/

 

[mosox]

The new AMD drivers and hotfixes mostly allow the user to reduce the tessellation level or do it by themselves. It doesn't mean that the old drivers were "bad" but that they found a way to circumvent the "features" that crippled their cards. That was a hack not an improvement of bad drivers. The IQ is similar so there was no point in putting all those sub-pixel extra triangles in the first place unless somebody wanted them to look bad in reviews.

The Metro 2033 "bug" that allowed the GTX 470/480 a lower IQ and the latter to shoot past the HD 5870?

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce-gtx-480_11.html#sect0

The Focus program is not shady business practice? I said "Nvidia shills" and I received another infraction. I was insulted at least two times in this thread I never reported those things, everybody is entitled to his own opinion.

Shill - From Wikipedia

A shill or plant is a person who helps another person or organization to sell goods or services without disclosing that he or she has a close relationship with the seller. The shill pretends to have no association with the seller/group and gives onlookers the impression that he or she is an enthusiastic independent customer. The person or group that hires the shill is using crowd psycholoy to encourage other onlookers or audience members (who are unaware of the set-up) to purchase the said goods or services.

Those Focus members all over the net who don't disclose their participation in the program are not shills?

 

[WelshBloke]

...Those Focus members all over the net who don't disclose their participation in the program are not shills?

AFAIK all focus group members are obliged by Nvidia to make it public that they are members.

 

[Zstream]

The new AMD drivers and hotfixes mostly allow the user to reduce the tessellation level or do it by themselves. It doesn't mean that the old drivers were "bad" but that they found a way to circumvent the "features" that crippled their cards. That was a hack not an improvement of bad drivers. The IQ is similar so there was no point in putting all those sub-pixel extra triangles in the first place unless somebody wanted them to look bad in reviews.

The Metro 2033 "bug" that allowed the GTX 470/480 a lower IQ and the latter to shoot past the HD 5870?

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce-gtx-480_11.html#sect0

The Focus program is not shady business practice? I said "Nvidia shills" and I received another infraction. I was insulted at least two times in this thread I never reported those things, everybody is entitled to his own opinion.

Shill - From Wikipedia



Those Focus members all over the net who don't disclose their participation in the program are not shills?

Never played the game, I own a 4850 and a 460 but will not purchase it due to this sort of crap.

 

[Zstream]

AFAIK all focus group members are obliged by Nvidia to make it public that they are members.

Personal obligation, no way of telling.

 

[WelshBloke]

Personal obligation, no way of telling.

No I think its part of the regs of joining, want to be a member then you have to declare it.

Also does it matter if someones a focus group member? As long as they are polite and dont spread FUD then I dont see the problem.

There are plenty of fanboys (on both sides) who will spam forums without any input from Nvidia/AMD.

 

[mosox]

Do be aware of the AnandTech Forum Guidelines, specifically Rule #1 which states:


Your post above is essentially an admission that your objective in becoming a member here is to press an anti-Intel and anti-Nvidia agenda with the no other motive than to upset the crowd because the crowd in your mind is pro-Intel and pro-Nvidia.

You are welcome to engage our community through our forums, but if you are here just to stir the pot and piss off as many people as you can then you are going to find yourself in the express lane to being banned.

Moderator Idontcare

Well, there's nothing wrong pressing an anti-anything agenda IMO. People still have the right to be against a Corporation if they feel cheated. It's wrong to press a pro "X company" agenda as in the Nvidia infamous Focus Group program. Whatever one wants to say bad about AMD - I have no problem with that (and I read those kind of stuff all the time in here - very good).

There are only two possibilities:

1. The crowd in here is NOT pro-Intel and pro-Nvidia and nobody is upset by this thread. Might consider it silly or disagree (and many did that decently) but that's not flaming or anything since nobody is pro those companies and they couldn't care less about my criticism.

2. The crowd in here IS pro-Intel and pro-Nvidia and this makes this a flame thread BUT then this forum is biased and that would prove my opinion.

 

[WelshBloke]

Well, there's nothing wrong pressing an anti-anything agenda IMO. People still have the right to be against a Corporation if they feel cheated. It's wrong to press a pro "X company" agenda as in the Nvidia infamous Focus Group program. Whatever one wants to say bad about AMD - I have no problem with that (and I read those kind of stuff all the time in here - very good).

There are only two possibilities:

1. The crowd in here is NOT pro-Intel and pro-Nvidia and nobody is upset by this thread. Might consider it silly or disagree (and many did that decently) but that's not flaming or anything since nobody is pro those companies and they couldn't care less about my criticism.

2. The crowd in here IS pro-Intel and pro-Nvidia and this makes this a flame thread BUT then this forum is biased and that would prove my opinion.

The focus group is 'infamous' pretty much due to one member. He's banned from here and just about every other reputable forum.

The rest of the members seem fine and I dont see them stirring up trouble.

Nvidia can have their questionable marketing moments (as can AMD) but I dont see why your obsessed with laying everything at the focus groups feet.

 

[mosox]

That's exactly what I said. Questionable coding in their games, questionable marketing practices, questionable benches, questionable relationship with game developers and some hardware sites, questionable promotion of proprietary solutions.

So why all this fuss about those claims? I'm treated like I was drawing a Muhammad cartoon on an Islamic site. 🙂

 

[SirPauly]

Im with you on the part where the OP is clearly presenting one sided arguments.

And Impressed with how physx 3.0 works. But you are starting to sound a bit one sided too with only listing nVidia "triumphs" making AMD look like they do nothing.

You would be surprised how much AMD helps developers with games. They just choose to spend their money on things other than putting up gaming evolved banners all of the game.

Also another thing, even when you turn off tessellation in HAWX2 nV cards are still much faster than AMD cards, so its something other than just tessellation as you don't see that in any other game, even in 3Dmark11 or Unigene that use heavy amounts of it. With tessellation off, AMD cards are still lumped together from the much slower 5850 with 1 tessellator engine to the 6970 has a tessellator up to 3x more powerful.

It mostly just poor coding on ubi's part. I don't think nV could get a game crippled for AMD even if they tried, seeing how close market share is to 50/50.

At times, I clearly do, but usually in the context of such one-sided extremism -- it's a way of trying to bring some balance into the discussion.

 

[SirPauly]

Well, there's nothing wrong pressing an anti-anything agenda IMO. People still have the right to be against a Corporation if they feel cheated. It's wrong to press a pro "X company" agenda as in the Nvidia infamous Focus Group program. Whatever one wants to say bad about AMD - I have no problem with that (and I read those kind of stuff all the time in here - very good).

There are only two possibilities:

1. The crowd in here is NOT pro-Intel and pro-Nvidia and nobody is upset by this thread. Might consider it silly or disagree (and many did that decently) but that's not flaming or anything since nobody is pro those companies and they couldn't care less about my criticism.

2. The crowd in here IS pro-Intel and pro-Nvidia and this makes this a flame thread BUT then this forum is biased and that would prove my opinion.

How exactly do you feel cheated though?

 

[WelshBloke]

That's exactly what I said. Questionable coding in their games, questionable marketing practices, questionable benches, questionable relationship with game developers and some hardware sites, questionable promotion of proprietary solutions.

So why all this fuss about those claims? I'm treated like I was drawing a Muhammad cartoon on an Islamic site. 🙂

Your doing it in a very one sided way though.

Do you feel the same when AMD sponsors a game or AMD does better in something?

Also your suggestion that AMD users boycott a group of games would be self defeating anyway if it happened. Why would a games company bother to make any of their games work well on AMD hardware if no AMD users were playing them.

 

[bryanW1995]

While the corporations have the right to tweak their products as much they want, the end user has the right to decide what he buys or not.

This is an incomplete list of companies/games that not only exploit the Nvidia strengths but also cripple the ATI/AMD cards on purpose.

Ubisoft - Assassin's Creed
HAWX1&2
Capcom - Lost Planet 2
EA Digital Illusions
- Battlefield: Bad Company 2
- NFS
4A Games - Metro 2033
Digital Extremes - BioShock 2
Capcom - Lost Planet 2
Cryptic Studios - Star Trek Online

Look at this bench:
http://i.imgur.com/S2GTL.png
It's ludicrous

Stop buying their products, period.

(holding up arms in solidarity)

I agree!! I will not play any of those games today!!!! of course, I don't actually own any of them, and I wasn't planning to ever buy any of them anyway. And I have 5 nvidia cards. And, um, well, that about covers it.

 

[bryanW1995]

Too late. Got a couple of those games and 3 nvidia cards currently.

repent thou sinner! you MUST return those games with PREJUDICE!! and graffitti them up or something so that the evil game companies can't try to re-sell them...


@OP: I was benchmarking Curse of the Azure bonds last night. I think that it runs faster on nvidia cards so I'm sending it back.

 

[mosox]

First time when a GTX 570 will be worse than, say, a HD 6850 in an AMD sponsored game I will call them out. The hardware companies shouldn't control the applications - this leads to monopolies. But it's their right to do it and ours to boycott.

Creative was under attack by enraged clients - they changed the tune. It works. I bet we could make Intel drop the hardware DRM if we put some pressure on them but we're too busy fighting each other.