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Question Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

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Meanwhile, in Windows land:
1763019050870.png

This Microsoft's president for Windows + Devices. The replies to his tweet were brutal, comments are disabled now. This type of announcement is just the cherry on top, MS has been incredibly aggressive with AI crap everywhere in their software and service stack, to the point where I actively avoid their software and have began experimenting with a modified Windows version (MicroWin).

I think there's a high chance SteamOS will become a place of refuge for PC gamers, so I can only hope Valve does a great job with this round of hardware.
 
coercitiv said:
Meanwhile, in Windows land:
View attachment 133831

This Microsoft's president for Windows + Devices. The replies to his tweet were brutal, comments are disabled now. This type of announcement is just the cherry on top, MS has been incredibly aggressive with AI crap everywhere in their software and service stack, to the point where I actively avoid their software and have began experimenting with a modified Windows version (MicroWin).

I think there's a high chance SteamOS will become a place of refuge for PC gamers, so I can only hope Valve does a great job with this round of hardware.
Click to expand...

idk... there are games that just won't work in SteamOS... the ones that have a fair amount of cheaters and so require an anticheat. Destiny 2, although its dying, still refuses to work on SteamOS. I think there are reports of folk getting banned a while back because the anti-cheat gets terribly confused.

BF6 won't work. etc etc
 
RnR_au said:
idk... there are games that just won't work in SteamOS...
Click to expand...
I understand that, but I'm thinking more long term here. SteamOS is a slow burn effort, more than a decade old. If any real transition will happen, it won't be overnight. Maybe eventually Microsoft wakes up from their AI nightmare and they fix their OS, but I'm not holding my breath. They're already pushing Copilot in the Xbox ecosystem:

1763026136163.png

Maybe I'm just imaging things, but ATM I expect that next year one of your gaming sessions will be interrupted by Copilot, asking you if you need help with your gaming.
 
coercitiv said:
My impression they're trying to hit a low price point and create the "entry-level" Steam box. It needs to show what's possible while also catering to a low-cost crowd that no other OEM would be willing to address. IMHO there's a big difference between the console and the controller / VR glasses, those seem to be midrange+ hardware.


Yeah, people can build something more powerful for $700, but that requires effort and know-how. There's a large audience out there who would rather buy the ready-made product, with software installed and years of support. This type of convenience has a price sticker too.

If I had to guess, I think the price will fall somewhere close to where the DYI crowd would rather build their own. In the case of the tweet you quoted, that would be $549. DOA for the tinkerer, good value for the living room gamer. I expect they're still working on the price, especially considering how volatile RAM and NAND prices are right now. I do think they'll try to aim low though, no other reason to cut so many corners in terms of hardware.
Click to expand...

If that's your impression. I don't think you paid attention to what Valve has been saying. Multiple times they told different people it won't be console price. And every interpretation of that from people that actually talked to valve, was that it would cost more than consoles not less. Consider that even XBox Series X is $650 now:

“Steam Machine’s pricing is comparable to a PC with similar specs,” Valve told The Verge when it asked it if would cost more than PS5 Pro. Designer Pierre-Loup Griffais elaborated a bit more. “We intend for it to be positioned closer to the entry level of the PC space, but to be very competitive with a PC you could build yourself from parts,” he said.
Click to expand...

I expect about $700. Yes you can build something faster for that, but it's hard to build a PC cheaper than $700. Try to meet that price with ITX and really small SFF case.

This is more like a sleek small boutique SFF build, than the cheapest mATX case/MB and parts. Look at even the price of just sub 10L SFF case...
 
Probably even $699. 😀

I just think they are pretty clear that it's more than console pricing. So $500 is a pipe dream.

Then they also said it would cost around what it would cost to build it yourself, which is around $700 (even if you could spend another $20 and get a much better GPU).

People looking for it to be the best perf/dollar are NOT going to be happy.

But those that want a decent, very small SFF build probably will be.
 
Vikv1918 said:
This needs to be like $500 at most. But even at that price...like why not spend $200 more and build a 9060 XT pc that will run 50% faster and 100% faster in RT?

This product makes no sense to me. I think it's gonna be yet another Valve hardware L.
Click to expand...
Unless Valve just wants to cannibalise mini-PC and SFF niche then this has to undercut everything including prebuilts. 499 for the 512GB option won't be that disruptive. But IDK how much people value convenience.

RnR_au said:
Or maybe its supercheap which could be a winner in a cost-of-living crisis and high console prices.
Click to expand...
Only to be ruined by DRAM and NAND supercycle. But if it undercuts everything else significantly then it might still make a splash.

DAPUNISHER said:
Valve is the most favorably viewed company among PC gamers. That branding will help. Also, should have no problem stealing sales from similarly priced mini PCs.

Perhaps these have the iGPU fused off because it was nerfed? If so, that probably lowered costs further. Even at 30W if it is boosting to 4.8GHz it'll be as fast as a 7400f.
Click to expand...
No it's HP2 based. 2 Zen 4 + 4 Zen 4C and 16MB L3. You can google Ryzen 5 220 for example. Even 8400F should beat it.

RnR_au said:
idk... there are games that just won't work in SteamOS... the ones that have a fair amount of cheaters and so require an anticheat. Destiny 2, although its dying, still refuses to work on SteamOS. I think there are reports of folk getting banned a while back because the anti-cheat gets terribly confused.

BF6 won't work. etc etc
Click to expand...
Maybe Valve's Steam Machine push is high enough volume to force them to fix anti-cheat on SteamOS but that's prob just hopium.
 
Why do you think AMD has, thus far, refused to release an official FSR4 for RDNA3 and RDNA2?

I'd like to hear people's theories. Based on the leak, we see that FSR4 INT8 is usable and much better than FSR 3.1. There seems to be really no technical reason to avoid releasing it.

Is Sony stopping them? Is it about pushing casual RDNA3/2 users who dont know about optiscaler to upgrade? Is it to avoid bad press about performance loss compared to DLSS3 on RTX 40 and 30?
 
Vikv1918 said:
Why do you think AMD has, thus far, refused to release an official FSR4 for RDNA3 and RDNA2?

I'd like to hear people's theories. Based on the leak, we see that FSR4 INT8 is usable and much better than FSR 3.1. There seems to be really no technical reason to avoid releasing it.

Is Sony stopping them? Is it about pushing casual RDNA3/2 users who dont know about optiscaler to upgrade? Is it to avoid bad press about performance loss compared to DLSS3 on RTX 40 and 30?
Click to expand...
RDNA 2 is not worth the bad press for AMD

RDNA 3 has more TOPS, so doable but AMD's priorities in order
  1. Release redstone for RDNA 4
  2. Improve PSSR for PS5 pro with FSR 4 enhancements
  3. Rog xbox ally X update for FSR 4
  4. RDNA 3 cards with FSR 4
 
marees said:
RDNA 3 has more TOPS, so doable but AMD's priorities in order
  1. Release redstone for RDNA 4
  2. Improve PSSR for PS5 pro with FSR 4 enhancements
  3. Rog xbox ally X update for FSR 4
  4. RDNA 3 cards with FSR 4
Click to expand...
But there's nothing to prioritize. They already have a working version of FSR4 available for RDNA3, and its been available for months.
 
How much better is a 8640HS with a radeon 760m than a 7730u with Vega8? Bestbuy has a near 50% off deal on a Inspiron for sub $400 with the 760m. Costco has a the Vega8 system for $20 more, costco extra warranty etc.. Really tempting when my current basic laptop is randomly refusing to shut down or work properly.
 
Ranulf said:
How much better is a 8640HS with a radeon 760m than a 7730u with Vega8? Bestbuy has a near 50% off deal on a Inspiron for sub $400 with the 760m. Costco has a the Vega8 system for $20 more, costco extra warranty etc.. Really tempting when my current basic laptop is randomly refusing to shut down or work properly.
Click to expand...
I would go for 8640hs system. It’s Zen4 and better graphics
 
Ranulf said:
How much better is a 8640HS with a radeon 760m than a 7730u with Vega8? Bestbuy has a near 50% off deal on a Inspiron for sub $400 with the 760m. Costco has a the Vega8 system for $20 more, costco extra warranty etc.. Really tempting when my current basic laptop is randomly refusing to shut down or work properly.
Click to expand...
The 8640HS will be substantially faster in games (up to 2x faster) and single-threaded workloads. For multithreading you're looking at 8 cores Zen3 vs 6 cores Zen4 so it'll depend on the workload.


Here's a comparison table in a bunch of games:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Computer-Games-on-Laptop-Graphics-Cards.13849.0.html?type=&sort=&gpubenchmarks=0&professional=2&dx=0&multiplegpus=1&showClassDescription=0&deskornote=0&series_uid=0&archive=1&condensed=0&id=0&perfrating=0&or=0&itemselect_11566=11566&itemselect_10313=10313&condensed=0&showCount=0&showBars=0&showPercent=0&settings_class_array[]=1&settings_class_array[]=2&settings_class_array[]=3&settings_class_array[]=4&settings_class_array[]=6&settings_class_array[]=7&gameselect%5B%5D=1098&gameselect%5B%5D=1096&gameselect%5B%5D=1094&gameselect%5B%5D=1092&gameselect%5B%5D=1090&gameselect%5B%5D=1088&gameselect%5B%5D=1086&gameselect%5B%5D=1083&gameselect%5B%5D=1084&gameselect%5B%5D=1081&gameselect%5B%5D=1076&gameselect%5B%5D=1075&gameselect%5B%5D=1078&gameselect%5B%5D=990&gameselect%5B%5D=974&gameselect%5B%5D=742&gameselect%5B%5D=554&gameselect%5B%5D=540&gameselect%5B%5D=532&gameselect%5B%5D=404&gameselect%5B%5D=332&gameselect%5B%5D=329&gpu_fullname=1
 
Vikv1918 said:
Turns out ML-based FG does indeed work for RDNA3 : https://videocardz.com/newz/modder-gets-redstone-fsr-4-frame-generation-running-on-rdna-3-gpus

https://www.reddit.com/r/radeon/comments/1pqm4iv/fsr_4_fg_works_on_rdna_3_through_the_same_fp8

Via the same FP8 emulation method used to get FSR4 upscaling running on RDNA3.

The radio silence from AMD on this is annoying, to say the least. Just say outright whether you're not gonna bring support for these features or not.
Click to expand...
I believe they will as part of steambox release as PR stunt. You know how those things work .
 
Saw the David Wang interview recently from 3 years ago. It's interesting stuff. I remember Wang's vague comments about the future of rendering being GPU driven, but didn't really understand what this was about until AMD unveiled their Work Graphs demo at GDC 2024.

It reminded my of some AMD patents. IDK if these patents have already been shared but suspect this is why AMD is locking Work Graphs on RDNA 3. Native support is just not a thing on previous generations.

First there's the MDIA. Multi-draw indirect operations permit a purely GPU driven pipeline dispatching multiple instanced draw commands. The MDIA reduces CPU and API driver overhead and is 2.3X faster compared to RDNA 2, because it accelerates gathering and parsing of Multi Draw command data.
- Patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20240192994A1

More importantly there's the old 2018 patent which powers dynamic work creation on GPUs (work graphs). All the HW changes, mechanisms, and specific blocks required to make this a possibility is laid out in the patent.
- Patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US10963299B2

There's also another old 2018 patent for dynamic and GPU driven memory allocation, again an important part of work graphs.
- Patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US11720993B2

Interestingly it seems like Proton, while not the same thing as native support, can still hack work graphs functionality with emulation through a compute shader. This opens up support on RDNA 2 and older and allows us to compare native vs emulation. In many instances emulation wins, which just shows how immature the IHV drivers are. Would be nice to have a fallback similar to what the Proton dev is attempting on Windows 11 but that seems very unlikely.

Finally do any of you know how NVIDIA supports it? Aren't they known for basically deferring almost everything to the driver since Kepler?
In addition, are there any patents here that can point to why they only support it in Ampere and later?
 
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The PS5 Pro GPU is based on which RDNA Architecture?
Today a "new and improved PSSR" comes to PS5 Pro games and Sony says it's based on 6 month of refinement over FSR 4.

blog.playstation.com

Upgraded PSSR upscaler is coming to PS5 Pro

Resident Evil Requiem, launching today, is the first title to use this more advanced PSSR.
blog.playstation.com blog.playstation.com

AMD is burning itself for no reason by gate keeping FSR4 for RDNA 4 only.
 
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