Question Case PCI-E slot screw holes don't line up with GPU's bracket screw holes: Could this be the reason for the issue I'm having?

[Dave3000]

My primary system has a Fractal Design 7 Compact case. I noticed that after I insert my RTX 4090 Founder's Edition GPU into the PCI-E slot, all 3 screw holes of the GPU's bracket don't line up with the PCI-E slot screw holes of the case. It's off by about 1 mm, which makes it impossible to screw in the screws into those screw holes. The only workaround I found was to put pressure towards the front in the back of the case with my left hand while I prevent the case from moving by putting my right knee against the front of the case, then finally I can get the screw holes to lines up with the bracket screw holes of the GPU. However, it concerns me that I may be damaging my GPU with this work around because the back of the case where I put the foward pressure to get the screw holes lined up might be trying to go back to it's natural position while the GPU is installed even though it's now screwed into the case and may be causing this issue that I'm going to mention in the next paragraph.

The issue I'm having, ever since switching to this case for my primary system, was while loading Flight Simulator 2020, it would sometimes exit out to the desktop interface. Additionally, when flying in X-Plane 12, in the Zibo 737, it would just exit out on me back to the desktop interface. This is in Windows 11. No error messages, no warnings, just exits out of those games on a random basis and this didn't happen with this system installed in the old case, which now my secondary system is using. Can that workaround to get my GPU lined up with the screw holes of the case, have anything to do with this? Maybe there is a slight backward tugging to the card as the back of the case is resisting that forced position, trying to get back to it's natural position, possibly slightly shifting the GPU in the process, while I was playing those games?

 

[bba-tcg]

Maybe. Take the screw(s) out to see what happens.

 

[Dave3000]

Maybe. Take the screw(s) out to see what happens.

I unscrewed the GPU from the case and the back of the case reverted back to it's original position from the release of pressure, which also means that the screw holes were once again not lined up with the screw holes the the GPU's bracket. Also I'm not going to use this system while the GPU is not screwed into the case, especially if it's a heavy GPU.

 

[bba-tcg]

I unscrewed the GPU from the case and the back of the case reverted back to it's original position from the release of pressure, which also means that the screw holes were once again not lined up with the screw holes the the GPU's bracket. Also I'm not going to use this system while the GPU is not screwed into the case, especially if it's a heavy GPU.

Lay it on its side and see if it works without doing what it was with it screwed down. If it does, then either get a different case or bend the back of that one in far enough the screws go in without any further contortions.

 

[Dave3000]

That can take days, maybe weeks for the problem to crop up again, and I don't want a bulky case laying horizontally on my bedroom floor that whole time. Besides, when I had this system in my old case which had no alignment issues with this card, I didn't experience this issue. Strange thing is that I tried installing my sound card I had laying around into the motherboard and the screw hole of sound card's bracket lines up perfectly with the PCI-E slot screw hole of the case and the same screw hole as well. Maybe I should swap cases around again between the systems. My secondary system does not have a dedicated GPU and just using the onboard GPU, therefore, I did not experience the alignment screw holes issue since there would be no GPU to install for that system, and didn't even know that case had that defect until I used that case for my primary system which has a dedicated GPU.

 

[Paperdoc]

Your post says, "ever since switching to this case for my primary system". From that I understand that you moved your old system (especially motherboard) from a previous case into this new one. That alerts me to a possible REAL problem.

I suspect (you do not say) that the video card is l too LOW in the new case - that is, to get screws to line up you need to lift the video card's bracket up from the base plate. Right? To me that means the whole mobo should be raised up from the back mounting plate by as much as ¼". Does that sound right?

This sounds like a problem with the installation of the stand-offs under the mobo. See my post of July 14/24 on this other site.

Question - My pc suddenly black screen and PSU keep make on and off sound, what's wrong with my PC?

My pc parts: CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D 4.2 GHz 8-Core Processor CPU fan: be quiet! Pure Rock 2 CPU Cooler Motherboard: MSI B650 GAMING PLUS WIFI ATX AM5 Motherboard RAM: Corsair Vengeance 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 Memory Storage: Samsung 980 Pro 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State...

forums.tomshardware.com

As explained there, stand-offs mis-located or even altogether missing can cause big problems with possible short circuits to Ground (permanent or intermittent) on the bottom of the mobo. This MAY be the cause of the unexpected behaviour of your machine to exit games in progress. And certainly if you did NOT ensure that all stand-offs were installed before mounting the mobo in the new case, that would put the mobo too close to the back mounting plate and result in misalignment of rear holes.

 

[Dave3000]

Your post says, "ever since switching to this case for my primary system". From that I understand that you moved your old system (especially motherboard) from a previous case into this new one. That alerts me to a possible REAL problem.

I suspect (you do not say) that the video card is l too LOW in the new case - that is, to get screws to line up you need to lift the video card's bracket up from the base plate. Right? To me that means the whole mobo should be raised up from the back mounting plate by as much as ¼". Does that sound right?

This sounds like a problem with the installation of the stand-offs under the mobo. See my post of July 14/24 on this other site.

Question - My pc suddenly black screen and PSU keep make on and off sound, what's wrong with my PC?

My pc parts: CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D 4.2 GHz 8-Core Processor CPU fan: be quiet! Pure Rock 2 CPU Cooler Motherboard: MSI B650 GAMING PLUS WIFI ATX AM5 Motherboard RAM: Corsair Vengeance 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 Memory Storage: Samsung 980 Pro 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State...

forums.tomshardware.com

As explained there, stand-offs mis-located or even altogether missing can cause big problems with possible short circuits to Ground (permanent or intermittent) on the bottom of the mobo. This MAY be the cause of the unexpected behaviour of your machine to exit games in progress. And certainly if you did NOT ensure that all stand-offs were installed before mounting the mobo in the new case, that would put the mobo too close to the back mounting plate and result in misalignment of rear holes.

The case came with the stand-offs installed. There is also a permanent center stick-through stand-off to help make sure the motherboard is positioned accurately in the case as I install the motherboard. There is no way to move the motherboard even slightly back or forward because of this permanent stick-through stand-off, but I can rotate the motherboard, and the motherboard seems accurately lined up with the stand-offs. No extra stand-offs installed either. However, when installing the motherboard, there was some play, about 1-2mm in the front part of the motherboard between the underside of the motherboard screw holes and the stand-offs, as I could push the motherboard down a bit from the front edge of the motherboard until it touches the stand-offs, and it didn't touch the stand-offs if I didn't push down on the motherboard in that area. In the middle area and rear area of the motherboard/case, there was no play, meaning the underside of the motherboard screw holes was touching the stand-offs without me having to push the motherboard down into the tray. However, I managed to get the motherboard screwed into all standoffs. Also the motherboard tray looks a little concaved or warped when I look at it through the underside CPU cut-out of the tray, it appears that when looking through the underside CPU cut-out on the motherboard tray, the motherboard is straight but the gap between the motherboard tray and motherboard gets a little larger the closer to the left side of the underside CPU cut-out it gets, but the motherboard is fully screwed into all the stand-offs.

 

[Paperdoc]

So, stand-offs clearly are not the problem. Clearly you understand their use.

What you describe is a bit odd. What about other items near the back of the case? For example, the mobo has a rear panel that sticks out of a hole in the case with a pre-made trim panel around that panel. Does THAT line up with the case opening, or is it mis-aligned, too, as the PCIe slot openings appear to be?

 

[Dave3000]

The rear IO shield of the motherboard is lined up perfectly with the case. I noticed that the bracket of my GPU is leaning forward slightly in relation to the slot panel of the case, leaving a gap between card's bracket and the case that gets slightly larger the higher up the bracket right after I insert the card into the slot. This is before putting the forward pressure in the slot panel area of the case to line up the screw holes of the case with the screw holes of the card's bracket so I can screw the card's bracket into the case.

 

[Paperdoc]

MAYBE the video card is not fully pushed down into its PCIe slot at the back. That would make it a bit too high and too far away from the case back panel. Check under the metal plate on the back end of the card for something that is interfering with its ability to drop down properly.

 

[DaaQ]

The rear IO shield of the motherboard is lined up perfectly with the case. I noticed that the bracket of my GPU is leaning forward slightly in relation to the slot panel of the case, leaving a gap between card's bracket and the case that gets slightly larger the higher up the bracket right after I insert the card into the slot. This is before putting the forward pressure in the slot panel area of the case to line up the screw holes of the case with the screw holes of the card's bracket so I can screw the card's bracket into the case.

MAYBE the video card is not fully pushed down into its PCIe slot at the back. That would make it a bit too high and too far away from the case back panel. Check under the metal plate on the back end of the card for something that is interfering with its ability to drop down properly.

On the larger, ie 3 slot video cards, I have had cases where there is a kind of slot for the tongues on the bottom the the support plate, where if not positioned absolutely correct the tongues would miss these slots and sit between MB and case slot holes. Might have been Silverstone case.
The card would insert into the PCIE slot but the screws would not seat what I considered correct or flush. I think my Caselabs case has this as well.
Just throwing it out there.

 

[Dave3000]

On the larger, ie 3 slot video cards, I have had cases where there is a kind of slot for the tongues on the bottom the the support plate, where if not positioned absolutely correct the tongues would miss these slots and sit between MB and case slot holes. Might have been Silverstone case.
The card would insert into the PCIE slot but the screws would not seat what I considered correct or flush. I think my Caselabs case has this as well.
Just throwing it out there.

I checked the underside of the motherboard tray of the case and it does have those PCI card bracket slots. The 3-slot bracket of my RTX 4090 is inserted into 3 of those slots, therefore that can't be the cause of the issue I'm having.

 

[Dave3000]

Today the exiting out without warning happened in X-Plane 12 while using the FMC on the Sparky 747-400. I was entering the origin on the FMC and then my system became unresponsive then 5 seconds later crashed out back to the desktop interface. This time I was using Linux (CachyOS) for the operating system. Previous time it was on the Zibo 737-800 and fooling around with it's FMC while in flight, but that time I was using Windows 11. I later ran MemTest 86 v11.3 and no errors for 1 hour then I decided to stop MemTest. At this point I'm considering transferring the hardware in this system to my other case like I originally had it and the hardware in my secondary system to this case, since my secondary system does not have a dedicated GPU, so I won't run into the card screw holes alignement issue.

Fortunately I ended up getting this case for free due to some physical damage on the right side panel of the case and felt that instead of discarding or giving away the case that it was still useable for my secondary system that I initially planned to use it for. This was long before I found out about this issue with the PCI-E slot screw hole alignment as I was using onboard GPU at time while using this case.

 

[Dave3000]

So, stand-offs clearly are not the problem. Clearly you understand their use.

What you describe is a bit odd. What about other items near the back of the case? For example, the mobo has a rear panel that sticks out of a hole in the case with a pre-made trim panel around that panel. Does THAT line up with the case opening, or is it mis-aligned, too, as the PCIe slot openings appear to be?

I just finished removing the components from the case today and after I removed the GPU I checked the motherboard's integrated IO shield once again for alignment issues and it appears now that it is slanted slightly forward in relation to the PCI slot shelf of the case just like the GPU's bracket was. Applying forward pressure to the PCI slot shelf makes it aligned with the IO shield and gets rid of the gap. Also stand-offs were all the way screwed onto the case's motherboard's tray as I checked with a screwdriver socket bit. The motherboard tray of the case seems a little warped or convexed even without the motherboard installed, maybe that can explain the 2mm or so of play between the underside of the motherboard and the stand-offs on the front side of the motherboard once the motherboard is resting on the stand-offs.

 

[Paperdoc]

Yeah, a mounting plate warp could account for this. Do you think it can be straightened?

 

[Dave3000]

I don't think the motherboard tray can be straightened out. The motherboard tray is non-removable and is riveted to the case. I don't know how to remove the rivets and even if I could remove the motherboard tray, it would be a job where precision is required to straighten out the motherboard tray and I'm not even sure if that's possible, not to mention if once it is straightened out that it will have issues lining up with the rivet holes of the case or not. I already fixed the bend in the corner of the right side panel of the case but I left a small dent and scratch marks from the pliers. I originally thought that that would be the only issue with the case, until I swapped cases with my primary system which was about 3 months later after I purchased the case. This morning I swapped back this case to my secondary system that has no dedicated GPU installed as I'm using the onboard GPU for that system and using my Meshify C case for my primary system which has the RTX 4090 Founder's Edition, which I had no issues alignment with the PCI-E slot screw holes of that case. It's too bad because the Define Design 7 Compact has more features than the Meshify C, easier to pull out the front panel, and has a removal top panel which I found of value because it makes it easier for me to connect the CPU power cables to the motherboard when the heatsink is installed on the CPU, if I don't want to remove the heatsink from the CPU before connecting those cables to the motherboard.

 

[Micrornd]

Firstly, how far are the screw holes of in mm? Most cards are never of very many mm's
I've run into this type of problem many times over the years. To fix it I simply make sure the MB is laying flat (horizontal), then I make sure card is full seated in it's slot, then after noting how far the screw hole alignment is off, I remove the card and with a small pliers, I carefully bend the top of the mounting bracket (both the horizontal AND vertical portions) to bring them into alignment. Reinstall the card, check aligment and for full insertion into the slot, repeat if necessary until correct. Use all screw holes on the card to hold it in place and use a support system to hold the card in it's proper position if the MB is vertical when in use. The most important part is to make sure your efforts result in the card being fully seated.

 

[Dave3000]

Firstly, how far are the screw holes of in mm? Most cards are never of very many mm's
I've run into this type of problem many times over the years. To fix it I simply make sure the MB is laying flat (horizontal), then I make sure card is full seated in it's slot, then after noting how far the screw hole alignment is off, I remove the card and with a small pliers, I carefully bend the top of the mounting bracket (both the horizontal AND vertical portions) to bring them into alignment. Reinstall the card, check aligment and for full insertion into the slot, repeat if necessary until correct. Use all screw holes on the card to hold it in place and use a support system to hold the card in it's proper position if the MB is vertical when in use. The most important part is to make sure your efforts result in the card being fully seated.

With my particular card, their is no flexibility on the upper part of the bracket since the upper part of the bracket is screwed into the PCB as well. Also when I transferred back the components to the old case, in FS2024 in the controller settings menu configuring my joystick for the game, the game automatically crashed out back to the Windows desktop interface. So maybe the crash outs to the desktop in while flying in X-Plane 12 while using the FMC and during loading FS2020 is not because of the forcing the case to to line up with its bracket screw holes with the screw holes of the bracket of the graphics card or screwing in the motherboard to the stand-offs of a slightly warped motherboard tray? Maybe a graphics driver issue if it's still doing it in my old case, only difference is the case. My old case is the Fractal Meshify C and my newer case is the Fractal Design Define 7 Compact which is the problem case which is now used for my secondary system which has no discrete GPU, so I won't run into that problem as long as I never plan on adding a discrete GPU or a PCI-E card to the system. Now I don't know exactly what was causing these crash-outs to the desktop in these two games I mentioned here, but it's not the case or what I think was the case trying to bend back to it's natural shape and the graphics card maybe the graphics card was getting tugged by the case the slightest as it happened, if it was actually happening, despite the screws holding the bracket in into the slot. There is no longer a problem with the crash-outs to the desktop for a month so far and I don't know what fixed it or if it's bound to return. I'm using a more updated graphics driver and some Windows updates since then, but other than that nothing else changed in my system.

 

[Dave3000]

Well it appears that the issue with the crash outs to the desktop interface on my system has returned. It happened today after I clicked on "Manage Library" of the Citation Longitude Enhanced upgrade add-on that I was about to download from the FS2024 Marketplace. I'm using the Steam version of FS2024. These crash-outs didn't happen when these components were in my old case before transferring them to my newer case but now they are installed back in my old case and the crash-outs to the desktop interface are still happening, but in FS2024 this time and when I'm in the menus whether it's configuring controllers or just browsing the FS2024 Marketplace.

 

[Dave3000]

Well I was loading X-Plane 11 yesterday and it kicked me out back the desktop interface about 10 seconds into loading in the splash screen. I wonder if I either damaged my motherboard (slightly warped/bent motherboard tray but didn't notice it until after the motherboard was installed) and/or GPU (screw holes of PCI-E shelf on case not aligned with GPU's bracket screw holes unless I put pressure on the back of the case) when I installed them in the newer case and that could explain the reason for the crashing to the desktop issues I'm having persisting even with the components installed back into the older case ever since I installed them in the newer case. My RAM is most likely not the issue here as I did run all 4 passes of memtest86 without issues overnight. Also my Ryzen 7 9800X3D is not overclocked in any way and that includes my RAM being DDR5-5600 CL46 which is considered within spec for the Ryzen 7 9800X3D's IMC.