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Discussion M5 series GPU discussion

For those of us who don't pay deep attention to GPU architectures, what sets M5 GPU apart from earlier ones? What did the earlier GPUs lack?
 
marokra said:
For those of us who don't pay deep attention to GPU architectures, what sets M5 GPU apart from earlier ones? What did the earlier GPUs lack?
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The M5 GPU architecture “Apple10” is a much more area performant architecture and each GPU core is properly utilised leading to huge uplifts in rasterisation and in ray traced workloads even more than M3 -> M4 which introduced RT cores. It also includes tensor cores useful for prefil and Topez etc.

The performance per watt is also very good. Previous architectures from Apple lacked good PPA and had weak performance for the price you paid relative to dGPUs from Nvidia. The Pro and Max variants should scale well and offer a better overall package now.

I could go further into detail but it’s better to wait till next week where we can see actual tests.
 
I haven't had time to do much more than look at the highlights for new new M5 MBP from threads here, but I was intrigued by the reported uplifts in graphics improvements.

The posts here have certainly helped to explain why it's such a large jump despite the paper specs not suggesting as much of an uplift.
 
Mopetar said:
I haven't had time to do much more than look at the highlights for new new M5 MBP from threads here, but I was intrigued by the reported uplifts in graphics improvements.

The posts here have certainly helped to explain why it's such a large jump despite the paper specs not suggesting as much of an uplift.
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yea it’s smart design. Increasing performance without increasing GPU area/adding more cores so the cost doesn’t balloon.

My expectation is that the 10 core M5 GPU should be on par with the 14 core M3 Pro in GPU bound tasks.
 
I wonder if Apple's GPU architecture roadmap is consistent with what Imagination is doing with its PowerVR GPU architecture? By a strange coincidence, in May of this year, Imagination presented a new architecture that offers a 35% improvement in energy efficiency (which almost matches the energy efficiency curves in Geekerwan's A19 Pro review) and has a built-in Neural Core that provides 4 times more performance in AI computing, which also matches Apple's Neural Accelerator.

www.imaginationtech.com

E-Series GPU - Imagination

E-Series GPU IP: fast, flexible parallel acceleration for graphics and AI workloads across automotive, mobile, consumer and desktop markets.
www.imaginationtech.com www.imaginationtech.com


"Imagination’s PowerVR GPU architecture is renowned for its energy efficiency and has been deployed in power-constrained devices for nearly twenty years. The E-Series’ new Burst Processors technology enhances power efficiency by a further 35% for AI workloads, games and user interfaces. This improvement is achieved by reducing pipeline depth and minimising data movement within the GPU."
"E-Series continues to offer the advanced graphics capabilities of previous generations of Imagination GPUs, including support for ray tracing. To this, it adds deeply integrated acceleration for power-efficient, low precision AI operations into every GPU core. This creates the compute-dense E-Series Neural Cores that scale up to 200 TOPS INT8 and unleash up to 400% the AI performance of the previous D-Series. The Neural Cores support a wide range of popular AI number formats, enabling developers to design networks that meet a broad spectrum of performance, accuracy and power demands. One of their many performance efficiency measures is an AI-friendly memory architecture that prioritises local memory for compute, greatly reducing the power and performance costs of going to external memory."
1761000103373.png
 
mvprod123 said:
I wonder if Apple's GPU architecture roadmap is consistent with what Imagination is doing with its PowerVR GPU architecture? By a strange coincidence, in May of this year, Imagination presented a new architecture that offers a 35% improvement in energy efficiency (which almost matches the energy efficiency curves in Geekerwan's A19 Pro review) and has a built-in Neural Core that provides 4 times more performance in AI computing, which also matches Apple's Neural Accelerator.

www.imaginationtech.com

E-Series GPU - Imagination

E-Series GPU IP: fast, flexible parallel acceleration for graphics and AI workloads across automotive, mobile, consumer and desktop markets.
www.imaginationtech.com www.imaginationtech.com


"Imagination’s PowerVR GPU architecture is renowned for its energy efficiency and has been deployed in power-constrained devices for nearly twenty years. The E-Series’ new Burst Processors technology enhances power efficiency by a further 35% for AI workloads, games and user interfaces. This improvement is achieved by reducing pipeline depth and minimising data movement within the GPU."
"E-Series continues to offer the advanced graphics capabilities of previous generations of Imagination GPUs, including support for ray tracing. To this, it adds deeply integrated acceleration for power-efficient, low precision AI operations into every GPU core. This creates the compute-dense E-Series Neural Cores that scale up to 200 TOPS INT8 and unleash up to 400% the AI performance of the previous D-Series. The Neural Cores support a wide range of popular AI number formats, enabling developers to design networks that meet a broad spectrum of performance, accuracy and power demands. One of their many performance efficiency measures is an AI-friendly memory architecture that prioritises local memory for compute, greatly reducing the power and performance costs of going to external memory."
View attachment 132315
Click to expand...
OSS driver efforts of PowerVR have also picked up considerably.

The VK driver is still about 62 extensions behind PanVK (Mali VK), but they at least put it over the v1.2 compliance mark a week ago, a significant improvement from not even being v1.0 conformant for a very long time.

I'd say that both are still waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy behind RADV in general levels of optimisation though, and they also lack a dedicated vendor specific shader compiler like RADV, NVK and ANV all have.
 
mvprod123 said:
I wonder if Apple's GPU architecture roadmap is consistent with what Imagination is doing with its PowerVR GPU architecture? By a strange coincidence, in May of this year, Imagination presented a new architecture that offers a 35% improvement in energy efficiency (which almost matches the energy efficiency curves in Geekerwan's A19 Pro review) and has a built-in Neural Core that provides 4 times more performance in AI computing, which also matches Apple's Neural Accelerator.

www.imaginationtech.com

E-Series GPU - Imagination

E-Series GPU IP: fast, flexible parallel acceleration for graphics and AI workloads across automotive, mobile, consumer and desktop markets.
www.imaginationtech.com www.imaginationtech.com


"Imagination’s PowerVR GPU architecture is renowned for its energy efficiency and has been deployed in power-constrained devices for nearly twenty years. The E-Series’ new Burst Processors technology enhances power efficiency by a further 35% for AI workloads, games and user interfaces. This improvement is achieved by reducing pipeline depth and minimising data movement within the GPU."
"E-Series continues to offer the advanced graphics capabilities of previous generations of Imagination GPUs, including support for ray tracing. To this, it adds deeply integrated acceleration for power-efficient, low precision AI operations into every GPU core. This creates the compute-dense E-Series Neural Cores that scale up to 200 TOPS INT8 and unleash up to 400% the AI performance of the previous D-Series. The Neural Cores support a wide range of popular AI number formats, enabling developers to design networks that meet a broad spectrum of performance, accuracy and power demands. One of their many performance efficiency measures is an AI-friendly memory architecture that prioritises local memory for compute, greatly reducing the power and performance costs of going to external memory."
View attachment 132315
Click to expand...

@name99
 
Huge upflit. The M5 Pro will be able to reach the level of the M3 Max (40 cores)/M4 Max (32 cores), while the M5 Max will surpass the M3 Ultra and match the 5090 laptop GPU.
1761149759018.png
 
The difference is strikingly small. This is not enough to draw any conclusions, but Apple is really catching up with NV. I would really like someone to do a full review of the capabilities of 3D rendering on Apple Silicon for heavy projects and power consumption during such work, and compare it with other GPUs.
 
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