Question Planning to get a new router for my long-standing home network

[BonzaiDuck]

It's time to replace my router. My router is a Netgear Nighthawk R7800 which I must have purchased at least 10 years ago. I was informed by e-mail from Netgear that they had terminated support with firmware (or other?) updates, suggesting I buy a new model. I did that around July, but reversed my order for simple reasons -- particularly that I tentatively decided to change internet providers such that the new ISP would supply their own router, but I reversed that decision. We started with Charter Communications back in 2002 and have continued through their changeover to Spectrum. We're subscribed to Spectrum internet, Basic TV and (landline) telephone. I do not intend to change now. We get a pretty good deal costing around $100/month.

In addition to the age of the router and termination of support, I just purchased a new LG television, and I've noticed with three or more TVs turned on in the household, there seem to be lags or dropouts. I also see that the latest routers provide a WAN port rated at between 2.5 Gb to 10 Gb.

I have always set up my router as a "gateway" using a TCP/IP address of 192.168.1.1 for a household subnet of 255.255.255.0.

All of my Ethernet wired PCs are set up to recognize that gateway address. With the proliferation of wireless, I've noticed that customers like my brother don't bother with the wired TCP/IP configuration and merely connect their laptops directly to the internet without implementing any sort of peer-to-peer file sharing. But I have three desktops with Ethernet wired connection, one TV with wired Ethernet. There are three tablets, three robotic cameras, two cellphones and three television sets using Wi-Fi connection to the router in the house.

Just this week, I had to resolve a failure of this or that computer failing in previously-configured access to folders and files on the other computers. I lost my Media PC and "file server" temporarily because a Windows Update borked my drivepool software configuration, but the fix turned out to be easy -- and I'd managed it before. This peer-to-peer connectivity and file-sharing is integral to my backup solutions and routine computer use. I cannot lose it; I don't want to spend days trouble-shooting to restore anything lost.

Originally, we only had Ethernet connections to the router -- twisted-pair with RJ-45. Connectivity from the router was extended through unmanaged gigabit Ethernet switches. This was all set up with the router as what was once shown as "Gateway" in earlier Windows versions, now identified as IPv4 DNS server -- as I said, with the router address of 192.168.1.1 and the subnet of 255 possible addresses with the 192.168.1.x subnet prefix. I am hoping to continue using the ethernet hardware and wiring for the wired devices -- as I said, three desktop PCs and a TV.

I haven't kept up with further developments, and this router was our replacement back in 2016 or 2017, following the same parameters and settings of the previous two routers -- with the same subnet and 192.168.1.1 router address.

Now I see a YouTube video about assigning a DNS address using Google or Cloudflare -- with addresses of 1.1.1.1 and/or 8.8.8.8. I have suspicions that this doesn't facilitate a "LAN" configuration with a local subnet like I'm currently using.

I'm confused and bewildered. If I buy a new router, I need to be able to restore the connectivity BETWEEN my wired desktops, wireless laptop and the other devices. Now I can see that the wireless devices can merely be changed to recognize a wireless network name and password. I can probably even change the name on the new router to the old network name and configure with the previous password. The robotic IP cameras might present a bigger problem.

I have a boarder in my house -- call her a "guest" -- she's my cousin. She has a cellphone, tablet and ROKU (wireless) TV.

I need guidance in setting up the new router and restoring all my household connectivity.

Who wants to help? Who can tell me what to do? I want to be able to make the conversion within a business day -- before my cousin returns home in the evening. If I get everything else -- or essential aspects like the desktops and a couple wireless devices -- working properly, then getting my cousin connected should be fairly easy. And all the remainder should follow.

Just for starters -- I have my eye on the Netgear Nighthawk RS140 -- part of a line of products released in 2023. It isn't the $600 flagship Nighthawk, but we don't get fiber-optic internet here: it's coax cable and not fiber-optic. I'm fairly sure I have the latest internet modem from Spectrum. Or -- perhaps not the "latest" as a DOCSYS 3.1 Model E31U2V1. It could be upgraded to Model EN or ES 2251, but not that much different.

Supposedly the modem provides up to 1 Gbps. The EN2251 is supposedly rated at 2.5 Gbps to support speeds over 1 Gbps.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Sorry to waste anyone's time. An AI search in Google -- "do home LAN networks still use subnets and gateways"

returns the following result:

Subnets: Most home networks use a single default subnet (commonly 192.168.1.0/24 or similar), allowing around 250 devices to communicate. Advanced users may create multiple subnets/VLANs to isolate IoT devices from personal computers.

Gateways: The default gateway is the IP address of the home router (often 192.168.1.1 or 192.168.0.1), which acts as the exit point to the internet.

Automation: While technically present, these concepts are hidden by DHCP, which automatically assigns IP addresses, subnet masks, and the default gateway address to devices.

Subnets are essential for organizing network traffic, while gateways are necessary for routing traffic outside of the home network.

Now I can go forward feeling confident that I know what to do.

 

[bba-tcg]

You're overthinking it. Pick whichever router you want. Pre-configure it with the same parameters as the old one. Plug the new one in in place of the old. Pretty much everything will just work.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

You're overthinking it. Pick whichever router you want. Pre-configure it with the same parameters as the old one. Plug the new one in in place of the old. Pretty much everything will just work.

As I said, and as I thank you for encouraging me, you're right. I THOUGHT this was all I needed to do. But it's . . . been-a-while . . . Here's a link to the NetGear Nighthawk I'm not looking at: Netgear Nighthawk RS140

That's about the price I used to pay for those things. I'll take some more time and look around. But -- no-- I"m not going to throw down $600 for their flagship unit -- no wayyyy!

Someone wrote me an e-mail the other day answering mine, noting "You are very long-winded!" I don't mean to punish people like this, but looking for tech opinions, I do run wild the the minutiae and facts.

 

[ryan0]

Don't worry about being long-winded; the details help! Note that the RS140 only has 3 LAN ports (unlike the R7800's 4). With 4 wired devices (desktops + TV), you'll definitely need to use your switch. Otherwise, it’s a solid choice. Just clone your old SSID and gateway IP (192.168.1.1), and everything should reconnect instantly.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Also, don't think your R7800 is really bad. Yes, Netgear is dropping support, but it is fully supported via third party firmware such as DD-WRT or OpenWRT. In fact it is still the most recommended router for use with any of the open source firmware distributions. Hardware wise, it is only just beginning to show it's age, but only if you have gigabit or higher network speed from your service provider (LAN <-> WAN routing will hit around 800-900 Mbps with proper tuning). Internally (LAN <-> LAN), it is full gigabit speeds, and that is what you seem to be using the most from your concerns with peer-to-peer backup and file sharing.

WiFi wise, the R7800 really is not missing much as new versions have focused on making it easier to make a "mesh" (something you could already easily do if you were using a third party firmware like the ones I mentioned above), with only a little improvement on overall bandwidth, at the expense of needing an additional WiFi channel free of congestion from other nearby networks (from a neighbor). If you live in a congested area, where your home is within 300 or so feet from your neighbor's home, don't expect to get full WiFi speeds of the latest generation gear (and even then, you would have had to upgrade all your equipment that use WiFi to the latest generation as well with a 3x3 client radio, which almost nothing use because it requires 3 antenna on the client end to work).

Alternatively, you can look at just using the R7800 in access point mode (again, very easy to do with the third party firmwares). This lets you have it perform the duty of handling the WiFi in your home network and possibly perform additional functions (it can easily be your local DHCP server and local DNS server), and place a real router or even a software based router (like pFsense or OpnSense). This is what I essentially have done. I have a mini-PC running pFsense (on a Dell SFF 9020) which I installed a Mellenox ConnectX-3VPI (capable of 40Gbps networking) as my edge router. I have this connected using a "router on a stick" methodology at 40Gbps QSFP+ direct connect cable to a Ruckus/Brocade ICX-6610-48p core switch. My WiFi is on a Netgear R9000, which is running DD-WRT and connected to the Ruckus/Brocade switch via 10Gbps SFP+ direct connect cable.

For the edge routing out to the internet, I setup 2 VLANs within the Ruckus/Brocade switch, one labled WAN, the other, ToLAN. The 40Gbps port on the switch that the pFsense system connects into has both those VLANs assigned to it as a truck port (meaning traffic over that interface can be on either of those two VLANs with the pFsense client tagging all the it transmits as one of those two VLANs. There is no internal route interface in the Ruckus/Brocade for the ToLAN or WAN VLANs (meaning it won't use the internal routing hardware to attempt to generate network mappings and routing tables between those networks, and effectively isolates them from each other). The only way traffic can route between the WAN and ToLAN networks is via the pFsense system. As of right now, my ISP connects via 2x 1Gbps ethernet cables to 2 ports on the Ruckus/Brocade switch which are configured as a LACP link aggregation which is VLAN tagged as WAN on the switch. This gives me up to 2Gbps connectivity to my ISP. If/when they finally release a modem that supports 10Gbps, I will just connect via a 10Gbps port and tag that as WAN (and don't need to do any other configuration changes other than un-configure the current ports being used).

I have a bunch of other VLANs configured on the Ruckus/Brocade switch and have mapped several of them to the WiFi network as well so that I could have WiFi devices directly on the appropriate VLAN for network segregation. This includes VLANs for guest devices, local IoT devices, IoT devices that need access to the internet, management devices, production devices, and development devices. I had to actually define something like 9 WLANs (the wireless equivalent to a VLAN, but wireless) across the three 2.4Ghz and 5GHz wireless networks, mapping them back to the appropriate VLAN tag. Any VLAN that I wish to have access to the internet can route back to the ToLAN VLAN, but the ones that I do not want to have access can not reach that VLAN (and I have ACL rules to prevent various traffic from routing originating on certain VLANs from using the ToVLAN to reach other devices on various other VLANs (certain ones can communicate with others, but something like the guest VLAN can only reach the internet and nothing else internally).

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I'd have to study your VLANs setup to understand.

HERE'S A QUESTION YOU OR SOMEONE ELSE CAN ANSWER FOR ME. i AGREE THAT THE EXISTING ROUTER IS SUFFICIENT, BUT I WILL REPLACE IT AS A LOWER PRIORITY OF OTHER THINGS I'M PLANNING TO DO.

The LAN here was originally set up to use mostly wired connections -- twisted-pair RJ-45 Ethernet. The cable-internet was first installed in an upstairs bedroom, and my telephone-tech brother made a cable drop from that room into this living room where I spend a lot of time. So I have wired connections to three computers here, a smart TV and AVR receiver.

Because I'm moving myself up to the Master Bedroom (my Moms' old room), I'm considering to break up placement of the midtower desktops so they can still be used as before. I will have to install a wireless networking card in one or two of those machines, because they will be relocated to rooms without cable-drops and wired Ethernet. Two of the three TVs in the house are currently using wireless, as are our two cellphones and two tablets.

Should I be concerned for converting two wired PC desktops to wireless connection? I haven't had any trouble with the other wireless devices, including my laptop computer. Also, are computer users migrating toward a total use of wireless connection to their household routers now? I have a few friends who've done that. My brother and his wife have dumped their desktop PCs and now use three laptops, all connected wirelessly along with his huge Sony Bravia and two other TVs. I can understand how limiting it can be to rely on wired internet -- routing the cables, hiding the cables -- the whole enchilada. I wasn't deterred: I had gigabit switches, and I'd run the ethernet cable along the baseboard at the floor as was necessary. But I would have to have a tech visit the house to make any additional cable-drops through the attic and walls. thus I'm cautiously considering a movement away from ethernet connections.

I depend on my connected desktop PCs for my serious business -- banking, investing, ordering from Amazon and COSTCO, several other things. I could guess that many mainstreamers don't feel so dependent on their internet access for "serious" work, but I'm sure they use it for such purposes just the same.

 

[bba-tcg]

My Tvs and cell phones are wireless. Everything else is wired. Your existing router is adequate as long as it's still getting security updates and otherwise serves your purposes.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

My Tvs and cell phones are wireless. Everything else is wired. Your existing router is adequate as long as it's still getting security updates and otherwise serves your purposes.

I may keep as many of the three desktop PCs on Ethernet, but more likely only one plus the smart-TV in the same room. If I move the other two PCs, they'll need a wireless connection.

I've been over-provisioned with desktops since beginning of the Millennium. First, I had to keep the fam-damn-ily in fresh PCs and internet connection. I had taught computer sci and info systems through 1999, and had three systems I brought with me to California. Second, as I kept a home server, I became paranoid about data loss. On of my PCs is a Media server and file server; the other two are "twins". The twins arose from advice of a tech friend to have a backup in case one system went on the fritz. But I also have a laptop that would serve that purpose.

I don't have a clear idea as to what "mainstreamers" do, although I have friends who insist on having a single desktop/midtower PC. I cannot imagine managing my money using my BofA banking app on my cell-phone; I just use the app to consult balances in the bank and in my Merrill accounts.

The whole idea of scaling back my hardware makes me jittery and afraid.

My plans are to replace the router as soon as I can find the money in current income. Possibly by June sometime. [Effing taxes killed me this year.]

With all this computer and wireless device dependency, you wonder what happens when a techi-guru-veteran gets so old they can't maintain their digital life anymore.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Well, as much as people love to say wireless is just as good as wired now, it simply isn't and won't ever be. It is fine for basic internet browsing/youtube/etc., but banking is still dangerous if you are trying to be really safe. There has been yet another serious flaw found in wireless recently that effectively bypasses almost all the security if they have access to your internal network.

UCR computer scientists reveal Wi-Fi security flaws

UC Riverside computer scientists identify major security weaknesses in the Wi-Fi networks we rely on at work, at home, in airports, and in coffee shops, among other locations. Even the most advanced “enterprise-grade” encryption systems used by universities and corporations were found to be...

news.ucr.edu

Wired is still the gold standard, and will remain as such. If you are re-arranging things at your home, you might simply want to consider having new wired drops added. There are many companies out there that do this. I had 8 new drops added a few years ago, and it cost about $250 per drop for CAT6a (low voltage re-worked boxes, keystone wall plates, wires run, and speed/performance tests to ensure functionality), but prices will vary. Mine all go down to a spot in the basement under the basement stairs to a patch panel as it is central to the house and the one wall of the basement stairs is also shared with the wall for the second story stairs and is non-load bearing. Obviously houses are not designed the same way, so depending on the house layout, you may not have a good central location for network drops.