Question Windows on ARM: any chance for the desktop?

[Hulk]

The love affair between MS and Intel has been over for quite a while. If you need evidence just look at how the current Surface devices are pushing ARM on Windows.

I am tempted to try one and see how they handle my apps.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I am tempted to try one and see how they handle my apps.

Don't do it!

Because then you might get soured on ARM. Wait for Snapdragon X Elite 2.0 with Oryon V3 cores.

Besides, there are laptops like this that probably deserve your dollars more: https://me.pcmag.com/en/laptops/298...-matte-laptop-screen-soothes-my-tired-peepers

 

[poke01]

Don't do it!

Because then you might get soured on ARM. Wait for Snapdragon X Elite 2.0 with Oryon V3 cores.

Besides, there are laptops like this that probably deserve your dollars more: https://me.pcmag.com/en/laptops/298...-matte-laptop-screen-soothes-my-tired-peepers

Yeah I would wait for X Elite 2 as well. Especially since it will be on N3P.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Yeah I would wait for X Elite 2 as well. Especially since it will be on N3P.

Node is whatever, Hamoa just was rough.

 

[soresu]

Just updated my Cortex thread, X930/Travis confirmed to bring SME, and also claimed "double digit IPC increase".

 

[Doug S]

The love affair between MS and Intel has been over for quite a while. If you need evidence just look at how the current Surface devices are pushing ARM on Windows.

That's because Microsoft has had a fetish for tablets from 15 years before the iPad, and neither Intel or AMD makes anything tablet worthy.

 

[adroc_thurston]

and neither Intel or AMD makes anything tablet worthy.

Neither does Qualcomm.
But tablets are a stale market where high-end windows stuff p much doesn't exist anyway.

 

[NTMBK]

AMD can prevent that by making hybrid ISA cores. ARM and x86 cores that share caches and OS can switch to whichever the application code desires.

x86 and ARM have different memory ordering models, sharing caches would be a nightmare (if even possible). And you're adding a lot of cost and complexity to the CPU to do this when you could just run x86 instead, and spend the transistors on making your CPU more efficient.

 

[Shivansps]

What problem does Windows on ARM solve?

Competition. Intel is a dumpster fire rn and AMD is getting too greedy lately, WoA opens the lots of others CPUs, not only from big brands, but from small startups too. And the natural movement will be to have Windows on RISC-V in a few years too.

 

[coercitiv]

Competition. Intel is a dumpster fire rn and AMD is getting too greedy lately, WoA opens the lots of others CPUs, not only from big brands, but from small startups too.

Folks, let's play a game. The rules are simple, you find one article while taking a break from work, then quickly head to a relevant Anandtech forum thread and see if the news fits one of the last replies. Here's my first attempt:

MediaTek Faces Obstacles In Bringing Its High-End Chipset To Windows Laptops; No Major Company Has Shown Interest In Using Its SoCs, With Its 3nm Kompanio Not Being Considered Either

Windows laptop makers have reportedly shown little to no interest in using MediaTek’s chipset in their machines

wccftech.com

At Computex 2025, WinFuture was speaking to some long-time MediaTek employees at their booth and questioned them as to when the company’s chipset would make a debut. Unfortunately, these individuals did not have positive news to share, stating that it could be a while before we get our first look at the silicon, primarily because both Microsoft and other notebook manufacturers have shown little to no interest in adopting a MediaTek chipset. The report states that both companies do not have a robust relationship, which could be preventing another player from entering this category.

So we get competition, but only from the chosen 😎

 

[Shivansps]

Folks, let's play a game. The rules are simple, you find one article while taking a break from work, then quickly head to a relevant Anandtech forum thread and see if the news fits one of the last replies. Here's my first attempt:

MediaTek Faces Obstacles In Bringing Its High-End Chipset To Windows Laptops; No Major Company Has Shown Interest In Using Its SoCs, With Its 3nm Kompanio Not Being Considered Either

Windows laptop makers have reportedly shown little to no interest in using MediaTek’s chipset in their machines

wccftech.com

So we get competition, but only from the chosen 😎

Its simple, lower the prices and the OEMs will be all over it... everyone wants to enter a new market and still expects to make a killing, ask Qualcomm.

Everyone is making far too much money for far too little effort by making phone socs, "hunting in a zoo" we call it here. Thats not going to happen when trying to enter a market dominated by x86.

And im talking of agressive pricing, not like AMD that waits to see how much Nvidia price their cards so they can underprice theirs by $10-20 bucks.

 

[igor_kavinski]

So we get competition, but only from the chosen 😎

Nothing is stopping Mediatek from launching a laptop with a decent desktop Linux distro. At least they can do a kickstarter sort of limited production run to gauge demand. If the hardware is up to snuff, they may get Microsoft interested in a partnership. If they were expecting a deep level of partnership like M$ had with Qualcomm, maybe they should be grateful. M$ sucks more out of their partner than they give. Sega and Nokia are prime examples.

 

[adroc_thurston]

lower the prices and the OEMs will be all over it

Nope.
You need to have a distinct platform with distinct advantages and g2m channel muscle to get anywhere, and MTK has neither.

 

[LightningZ71]

The problem MediaTek is facing is the short term memory of everyone in the industry that remembers their Google Chromebook offerings. In a few words, they created an intense partial vacuum wherever they were used. They excelled at nothing and every that I've ever seen write about attempting to program Linux drivers for them has lamented ever taking up the task over, say, shoving bamboo shoots under their fingernails while being waterboarded.

 

[mikeymikec]

I always found it funny with Chromebooks that the manufacturers seem to insist on making a subpar product but at price parity with Windows laptops. "Ours is the same price and you can do less with it!"

I wonder if that might also sink WinARM (or cause it not to manage to replace x86 / make waves in the Windows hardware industry), what I believe comes down to a problem that those manufacturing with it don't believe in it so therefore they're not trying to showcase it like they believe in it, plus they're probably building x86 alternatives like business as usual alongside the ARM offerings. Come budget review time, their ARM products didn't achieve wonders because they weren't built to be anything interesting, so why should the manufacturer put more into them?

Both architectures in the Windows market creates market fragmentation and complication, and a lot more people are going to choose the "play it safe" / "good enough" option.

One other problem is unscrupulous salespeople ruling the industry: I've had more than one customer come home with a Chromebook only to realise that it's incompatible with their needs, but because the store has a stock of CBs burning a hole in their inventory, that's what the salespeople are pushing.

Many reasons for potential one star reviews of WinARM products, further hampering their progress.

 

[Doug S]

I always found it funny with Chromebooks that the manufacturers seem to insist on making a subpar product but at price parity with Windows laptops. "Ours is the same price and you can do less with it!"

They weren't marketed based on selling price, they were marketed based on TCO. That's important for schools who don't care about (and actively don't want) the "more" you can do with Windows and probably can't afford more than a couple entry level IT people to manage laptops for an entire school district.

 

[jpiniero]

They weren't marketed based on selling price, they were marketed based on TCO. That's important for schools who don't care about the "more" you can do with Windows and probably can't afford more than a couple entry level IT people to manage laptops for an entire school district.

The lack of functionality is seen as a plus, yeah.

 

[Shivansps]

Nope.
You need to have a distinct platform with distinct advantages and g2m channel muscle to get anywhere, and MTK has neither.

Since when lower price is not an advantage?

They dont want to lower prices and thats another problem.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Since when lower price is not an advantage?

Well they can't price their stuff lower than Intel or AMD can.

They dont want to lower prices and thats another problem.

They can't.
By the time Wildcat Lake launches, their last chance at relevance in PC will be gone.

 

[DZero]

Folks, let's play a game. The rules are simple, you find one article while taking a break from work, then quickly head to a relevant Anandtech forum thread and see if the news fits one of the last replies. Here's my first attempt:

MediaTek Faces Obstacles In Bringing Its High-End Chipset To Windows Laptops; No Major Company Has Shown Interest In Using Its SoCs, With Its 3nm Kompanio Not Being Considered Either

Windows laptop makers have reportedly shown little to no interest in using MediaTek’s chipset in their machines

wccftech.com

So we get competition, but only from the chosen 😎

The issue is that Qualcomm is not improving in the GPU space which even Intel squashes them hard.

If this continues, Windows on ARM will crash and burn.

Meanwhile Huawei tries to make Harmony OS survive the ARM attempt.

 

[Doug S]

Since when lower price is not an advantage?

At the low end of the market they are competing against Celerons, and they don't have a lower price. Plus when CPUs cost that little the percentage of overall laptop price they account for is pretty small. Even if Mediatek gave their Chromebook SoCs away for free you'd see prices maybe 10-15% lower than what the basic hardware with a Celeron in it would cost to make.

I remember posting here about a year ago that I checked x86 Windows laptop prices at Best Buy and IIRC saw one for $109 on closeout, and another for $179 that was the normal price. Not much room for ARM to undercut those prices.

UPDATE: just checked and the current lowest price for a laptop that's not open box or refurb is $119, and the lowest non discounted non clearance price is $169. Both come with Windows. The cheapest Chromebook is $139 and the cheapest non discounted is $189. All four I've listed come with Celeron, except the $169 Windows one comes with Atom. The cheapest ARM Chromebook is $199 (discounted from $299) that comes with Mediatek. The cheapest Qualcomm Chromebook is $299 (discounted from $499, but its a 2in1)