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Poll: Do you care about ray tracing / upscaling?

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Do you care about ray tracing / upscaling?

  • Total voters
    255
jpiniero said:
You know, people said similar things about wanting AMD to focus on raster when Turing was announced.
Click to expand...
What people argued back then was that the cost of RT and DLSS hardware on Turing was too high (relative to the rest of the die), it slowed down generational uplift for raster. Nvidia was very willing to bring new tech to the market as long as consumers paid for it in advance, in the end they decided to split the bill with the introduction of the SUPER cards.
 
"Well, first of all, they're completely wrong", translation: my ego (Jensen's) is too big to admit I'm ever wrong
"DLSS 5 honours artistic intent", translation: we don't care as long as the slop keeps flowing
"Designed with developers", translation: delusional execs signed off without consulting engineers and artists because this turd would leak in a split second.

Meanwhile:
#1 Devs weren't told about this in advance: https://insider-gaming.com/dlss-5-gamers-are-wrong/
#2 Gamers give it 84% dislikes: https://www.techpowerup.com/347541/nvidia-dlss-5-gets-84-dislikes-on-youtube-as-backlash-grows
#3 Devs hate it: https://kotaku.com/we-spoke-to-game-devs-and-all-of-them-hate-dlss-5-what-the-f-nvidia-2000680059

Yeah this shit needs to die.

Also we need a separate poll to find out who likes sloptracing lmao
 
I feel like a lot of things get created for "artistic intent" but do not land with the majority of people... Jensen's just Jensen-ing while having his people count his cash. Dude doesn't care about games or art, just profit off of AI and squeezed supply chains.

As for DLSS itself... I don't mind enhancements to environments and lighting, but it's basically at the point where we're saying that actual human-made assets/models and talent aren't good enough, and we're just gonna give it a spray coat of artificial eye candy because we like AI and making money off of it.
 
marees said:
They are good at image quality analysis but seem surprising (/wilfully?) poor at the technical analysis of underlying technology
Click to expand...
They have people who can understand this, but they were not present at the demo. My impression is Richard and Oliver saw the live demo, got excited and rushed the video out without phoning home. They also committed the cardinal sin of taking Nvidia marketing speech at face value.

You can see Alex voice out his issues with the tech here, he essentially worries about it's shortcomings for the exact same reasons as the ones enumerated by Daniel after receiving confirmation from Nvidia.

We can blame DF for failing to do their job as journalists (as a group, not all of them fell for it), but the bulk of the blame is still with Nvidia marketing. Go back to Daniel Owen's video and watch how the wording in the initial email he receives from the Nvidia rep makes it sound like DLSS 5 is a lot more aware of th game environment than it really is.

Initial email:
1774001788918.png
This language would have anyone believe the neural model has acess to lightintg information, geometry and material information. (ex: reconstructs lighting, more realistic interaction of light)

Compare it with answers to pinpoint questions from Daniel, emphasis mine:
1. Yes, DLSS 5 takes a 2D frame plus motion vectors as input.
Click to expand...
2. DLSS 5 is trained end to end to understand complex scene semantics such as characters, hair, fabric and translucent skin, along with environmental lighting conditions like front-lit, back-lit or overcast - all by analyzing a single frame.
Click to expand...
3. The underlying geometry is unchanged.
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This launguage makes it clear the model can only access 2D frames and motion vectors. Nothing else.

Now add what Jensen Huang stressed about DLSS 5 when the press insisted:
"It’s not post-processing, it’s not post-processing at the frame level, it’s generative control at the geometry level," he said.
Click to expand...
Both claims are misleading at best. Nvidia is playing with words, favoring vague communication when it benefits them and asking us for the exact meaning of every word when they feel pressured.
 
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marees said:
my problem with DF

They are good at image quality analysis but seem surprising (/wilfully?) poor at the technical analysis of underlying technology

https://twitter.com/x/status/2034917578217291851
Click to expand...


I think Richard and John were just too caught up in Nvidia's reality distortion field at the time. They didn't have the time or opportunity to look at things properly either, so that resulted in a very poor approach in their first dlss5 video.


That this is just an AI 2D filter IMO says that the emperor has no clothes with DLSS5.

It doesn't look like the tech is all that interesting either. It's just brute-forcing a bunch of guesses through a big model so it can prop up light sources, exaggerate tonemaps and beautify human characters through standardized facial features (hence the puffed up lips, jawlines, etc.).
It's a single model that mixes smartphones' AI picture "optimizers" for setpieces and landscapes with instagram AI beautifiers for humans.

The fact that Nvidia used low settings for the DLSS5-off pictures makes it a lot worse, because turns out if you use max settings without DLSS5 and then correct the tonemapping for DLSS5-on examples, the difference becomes almost negligible.


At first and from DF's first video I thought the model was intrinsically embedded into the engine to look at the texture files, light sources, geometry etc., to prop up all the assets without having to resort to larger and more expensive assets and lighting calculations. It's a much simpler approach that IMO doesn't even deserve the "new DLSS" moniker.
 
You guys can turn the other cheek with DF, no chance of me doing it. I'd be cool if it was a one off, but they have been engaging in digital founder's edition shilling for years. Some of us have called them on it many times. Attributing any other reason or motive as to why they produced a Nvidia infomercial, is overly generous IMO.

The DLSS5 demo is a quintessential example of enshittification. Here is to hoping this firestorm rages hard enough to burn it down. If not, I'll keep voting with my wallet. The green Kaiju may not miss my money, but the game makers may.
 
Win2012R2 said:
And THAT required 2nd 5090! 😀

I doubt they are going to get model small enough to fit inevitable 12 GB cards they'll release in the future, or even 16 GB might be tight.
Click to expand...

I really don't think this will be a problem. Distillation and quantization might reduce the model's size and increase inference performance by over an order of magnitude.

The thing is we know the size and performance of 2D AI filters. They run realtime on smartphone NPUs/GPUs. Sure, you need a bit more power to run on higher resolutions and framerates, but it's not that heavy.


This model does stable diffusion "live" on faces (a much heavier operation than DLSS5) and it needs only 12GB VRAM.
huggingface.co

huaichang/PersonaLive · Hugging Face

We’re on a journey to advance and democratize artificial intelligence through open source and open science.
huggingface.co
 
Been following this DLSS5 discussion on some forums, including Reddit, and some of the topics on r/hardware that were critical of DLSS5 just simply got removed by a moderator. Is r/hardware under the influence of nVidia?

These were some of the topics that got removed, they showed videos were nVidia's DLSS5 was criticized:

nVidia Answers My DLLS 5 Questions:
https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1rya5cm/nvidia_answers_my_dlss_5_questions

Gamers Nexus nVidia Says Youre Completely Wrong:
https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1rxlxst/gamers_nexus_nvidia_says_youre_completely_wrong

While a couple of others, that are kind of positive topics of DLSS5, are still on.

For a long time I have had this feeling that there is a lot of nVidia influence on Reddit, be it comments or upvotes. The last couple of days only have strengthened that feeling.
 
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hlreijnd said:
Been following this DLSS5 discussion on some forums, including Reddit, and some of the topics on r/hardware that were critical of DLSS5 just simply got removed by a moderator. Is r/hardware under the influence of nVidia?

These were some of the topics that got removed, they showed videos were nVidia's DLSS5 was criticized:

nVidia Answers My DLLS 5 Questions:
https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1rya5cm/nvidia_answers_my_dlss_5_questions

Gamers Nexus nVidia Says Youre Completely Wrong:
https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1rxlxst/gamers_nexus_nvidia_says_youre_completely_wrong

While a couple of others, that are kind of positive topics of DLSS5, are still on

For a long time I have had this feeling that there is a lot of nVidia influence on Reddit, be it comments or upvotes. The last couple of days only have strengthened that feeling.
Click to expand...
Nvidia's marketing department is known to astroturf. I remember we even had a paid Nvidia influencer in these forums many, many years ago. However, I don't think their reality distortion field, even if it's now amplified due to NVDA Stonk, can positively spin this debacle.

1774022229193.png
 
If people think this is bad, just wait until next year when AMD tries to bring out their version of this technology and has even more inept marketing for it. 😛

Anyone who thinks this is the end of DLSS5 hasn't been paying attention. NVidia shills will keep pushing it and gaslighting anyone who disagrees with them and regular brand loyalists will forget it ever happened and are awaiting the next iteration where all of the problems get fixed and it's totally great for real this time.

Future marketing for their cards will show carefully chosen screen shots with DLSS5 next to the card inflated bar graphs thanks to DLSS3 frame generation to dupe clueless consumers. The bearings will continue until morale improves.
 
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